Hollowing Boxes





Collated from newsgroup postings.



Hollowing out the end grain on small boxes is a problem - getting them square and smooth anyway. Instead of buying expensive specialist tools, is there some way of grinding an old screwdriver to make a great little hollowing tool or scraper?



Based on my own experience and advice I got from a far more experienced box maker than I (Richard Raffan), I'd suggest using the biggest and heaviest scraper that will fit into the opening safely. That is if you use a scraper at all. I have been able to create great boxes requiring very little sanding using the Viking Tool. Also I've had the pleasure of using the Supercut Universal Tools from England, that Packard Woodworks sells. Both these tools are a pleasure to use especially in the endgrain of dense hardwoods for box making.

It is hard not to have to use "specialist tools" when doing special cuts. I've used sharpened screwdrivers and allen wrenches in various turning situations but definitely not to "square and smooth" small boxes.



You can hollow the inside of a box with a 3/8" short bevelled spindle gouge.

First bore a clearance/depth hole. Cut from the center out with the flute facing 10:00. It's sort of like scooping ice cream for a cone. Take light cuts; you are not trying to pry the box out of the chuck.

If you are turning a box with a rounded bottom, use a 3/4" half round scraper with side clearance on the left to shear scrape smooth. Pull and pivot the scraper to the left with a very light cut. The scrape will be tilted to the left at about 45degrees. Only fluff should be coming off the scraper.

If you are turning flat bottomed, square inside cornered boxes and don't have a 3/8" or 1/2" scraper, try a 1/4" cabinet chisel with very light scraping cuts to square the inside corner. Make sure that the scraper is flat on the tool rest when you engage the bottom or you will have a nasty catch when the chisel slaps down.

With lighter cuts and a little slower speeds, you should be able to turn nice boxes without buying new, expensive, single purpose tools.

Most screw drivers are surface hardened only and will make a poor cutting tool, but since all steel is harder than wood it will kind of work. You will however have to almost constantly resharpen.



For square corners, I have had pretty good luck just cutting into the corner from both directions with a gouge. It certainly helps to have the flutes ground back a bit, but that is the way I tend to grind them anyway.

If I do have to scrape, just a 1" square scraper works fine (assuming of course that your box is at least that big...). I have ground a bit of relief on the left side so the back doesn't rub on small diameters. You can also do this with the long point of a small skew...



Do consider not making the bottoms 'square'....I make lots of lidded boxes, and I seldom try to square them off...a gentle curve is easier to sand and no one has ever complained...I have used the Termite tool, and small scrapers to create the profile I want...but if you must make them square at the bottom, a small skew will do the trick just fine...just use the long point against the wall and scrape/cut gently. (on a skew, you have 2 cutting edges!...the broad part of the blade, and the 'V' edge...and you can put a fine scraping burr on both!)..I also use this to create lid recesses and inlays....



If you want to avoid the cost of the specialist tools and have a bit of cheap experience gaining turning time, you could try using a cold chisel. Not in conjunction with a hammer, I'm being sensible here, play around with different grinds. Cold chisels are hefty and don't vibrate too readily use a long one to overcome any grab from the box. I turned boxes like this for a while. Learnt a bit, didn't get any richer and still couldn't afford the special tools but gradually found how to use other tools to do the job.

If you struggle with something not meant for the purpose it's amazing how much better standard tools can seem when you return to them. If the boxes are small, say 2" dia 2 to 3" tall at most you should be able to get by. I use a spindle gouge, sometimes an old bowl gouge at least I think it's a bowl gouge it's got a flute length of about 1" left and the grind is anybody's guess, but I can just get in there with it and get results. It's as soft as anything so I'm always sharpening it and that inch is soon going to go. I won't be able to make boxes then and I'll have to go back to the cold chisel and start over. But not a screwdriver. I haven't been tempted to try it but I feel it would be even softer and likely to vibrate like the clappers.



You've had some excellent advice. The Viking Tool made by Soren Berger in New Zealand is excellent for hollowing boxes as is the OneWay Termite tool.

If you are working with the harder denser woods, Crown Tools is coming out with a new tool called a Box Tool that does an excellent job on harder woods. I've had one for about two years made by the fellow that introduced the Skewchigouge(?), sorry I don't remember his name offhand, which Crown is now producing also. The box tool is a fairly simple tool, which consists of a grind on the top about 1/3 of the way through the stock. Then a grind on the end that has about a 60 degree bevel and the cutting edge tapers to the right about 1 or 2 degrees. It is an excellent tool. Although you could make one from some round tool steel, I don't think that it will be too expensive from Crown and it is ready to go.

Incidentally, I've ground tools from old screwdrivers. The steel is poor enough that it is hardly worth spending the time at it. Unless it is a one time use and special shape that you need, then almost anything will work.



When I studied turning at a night class some 20 years ago, we were encouraged to make our own tools. I made a nice set from what I now know to have been wooden-plough-plane blades. We were also told to use worn-out files, but these need to be annealed before shaping, or they'll be too brittle and dangerous.

Cold chisels and cheap nail sets or pin punches might also make nice tools, if you can find them of sufficient length and if you quench them often while grinding.

I'm not saying you should make all your tools, but scraping tools are easy and other special-purpose tools can give one a lot of self- satisfaction in use.



How small are these boxes? I never seem to have much trouble with my spindle gouge and a diamond side scraper from hamlet so long as you do most of the work with a sharp gouge and only a whisker at a time with the scraper, also freshly sharpened, no problems.



Correct me if I'm wrong but are you at the stage where you've got a decent woodturning kit and spent a fair bit of money yet every time you seem to put tools to wood there are all sorts of unsatisfactory things happening. You get a nice clean cut and think this is it, then you get a juddering, project destroying, cut which puts you back at square one. The desperate part of your mind tells you that perhaps it's only folks with all the special purpose tools that ever get the results and you see nothing but spiralling costs or spiralling cuts in front of you.

I advise you not to spend lots of money on sharpening jigs, not to go chasing all the "this'll fix it" tools and even to give cold chisels a try for your box scrapers.

The best advice I can give is that you're in need of the only "tool" you haven't tried yet...time. There are going to be lots of bits of wood ending up as scrap before you get the facility with the tools that enables you to tackle a variety of jobs. Things go wrong all the time, if it's any consolation I have horror days on the lathe when for one reason or other nothing goes right. I don't suppose I'm alone.

Yesterday I was making some stoppers for bottles and without thinking I just kept turning the blank piece of wood to a cylinder between centres until it reached too small a diameter to grip in my chuck. Not having enough sense to grab another piece I set about rescuing the situation by trying to cobble together an alternative way of holding it. I ended up wasting time, getting tetchy and not making stoppers.

Now a four jaw chuck or another set of jaws would get me out of that problem but I'm not rushing out to get them, I'll try to have my mind on the job next time.

To go back to your point about turners being told to buy this or that tool, part of the reason is that a lot of folks on this newsgroup keep asking what should they be getting. Some have the cheapest lathes and yet ask advice about the most expensive chucks, others see or hear of the latest tool for such and such a job and think they have to have it. Lets face it some people won't be happy until they've got one of everything. Nothing wrong with that if that's something you can afford to do.

The trick is not to get disconsolate about what others may have, or be able to do, but instead keep on trying with what you've got.

It'll get better if you want it to get better and if you can recognise that it needs to get better. Some people plateau with their turning ability and are either quite happy or quite unaware at that. Others keep asking questions, of themselves and others and learn to overcome their problems but it all takes ..........time.



The 'gurus' I mention are not people here on the NG. Whenever I do anything I try to get as much information as I can. I read books and magazines and I learn. But in that process you get recommended to use all manner of tools and gizmos that cost money until you realise that a lot of these guys rave on about a tool simply because they were given the tool to rave on about in their articles, books etc. They never even bought it themselves. So I have to take a lot of this with a pinch of salt I know. What I am asking here is what happened to my Dads philosophy about tools, make them yourselves and of course woodturning lends itself well to that, so I am keen to hear what other turners have made to solve a given problem, not really what they have bought. In this case little boxes, what shape are the little scrapers, why reinvent the wheel.

There is a place for making your own tools and accessories. I've made several. Some tools are just not practical for everyone to make, as an example some box making tools, scroll chucks, and the lathe itself. Some people could and do make these things. Everything is a compromise and we have to find that personal balance. Some of us have more money than time and some have more time than money and both of these groups look to each other and wish they had more of that which they have less of, time or money.



High Carbon Steel makes great scraper stock some prefering it over HSS for this purpose. A square end scraper works great for squaring off the bottom of boxes. I have made several decent scrapers using old wood chisels that I have added longer handles to. I actually don't grind it square but have a about 5 degree angle to the edge to prevent friction on the side of the scraper.

I have never found screwdriver steel to be of correct alloy to hold an edge or even stay straight if ever a catch occurs. One of my favorite homemade tools was made using a 3/8" HSS lathe bit a metal working friend gave me. I epoxy glued the bit into a 2' length of 1/2" EMT steel conduit, then poured molten lead into the conduit. I had all supplies on hand so it didn't cost me anything. I use it as is without a handle though one could easily be added. This tool is rock solid and cuts through endgrain like butter.



My solution isn't listed, but I do the sides with a spindle gouge ground way back. Actually, it's the same gouge I use for hollowing. Half inch gouge ground a half inch back, it bores its own centering hole and brings shavings off the sides briskly. I give it a quick sharpen and make fine cuts for finishing the sides. If you want to help yourself out, taper slightly so you can cut "downhill" and minimize tearout. Bottom up for wider top, reverse for wider bottom, half and half with that awkward area for curved.

Sorry to say the best thing I've got for flat bottoms is the termite. No sanding required!



I'm curious to why no one has suggested purchasing cutting tips made for metal lathes? I have both interest and both lathe's (wood and metal) so I have a supply of cutting tips for the metal lathe. These also make good wood cutting tips to make your own tools out of. The tips are also inexpensive if you ignore the higher class name brands and they are also available in carbon tip or HSS. Sizes galore. A 3/16" sq. 2.5" long M-2 HSS tool bit sounds like just the thing he is looking for. I've found it interesting that the wood tool makers have moved to multi handle tools over recent years with different tips for each handle, you could do the same with these metal cutter tips without much trouble. It would be very easy with one of these tips ground on front a couple of degrees so you don't strike the bottom of the box and you would have no trouble reaching into that corner for that flat bottom box. I should have added the word "blank" to tool bit, or more clearly "tool bit blanks" as they are unground and you must grind the end to the shape you want. So I think they are perfect for your own inventions and much much better than screwdrivers etc.



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